Re: 烏魯木齊
Posted by Tim Luo on 2007/6/8 11:30:58
As promised, I herein input what I know about this particular expression.
From my personal experience, I never heard anyone actually pronounce the second character as a 入聲 (lok) before I learned of it from books or the like. Therefore I think it might be helpful to clarify this from historical data. We can see from one of the links that 英廈辭典 said something about why it's so.
For this, we need to know when 英廈辭典 was published. From http://203.64.42.21/iug/ungian/SoannTeng/subok/POJ.htm, we can find 英廈辭典 and 英廈字典. The said dictionary should be the one called A Practical English-Hokkien Dictionary(實用英廈辭典), or any other one published after the establishment of Republican China or there won't be words like "清末明 (should be 民)初遠從烏魯木齊來臺的人或官員，談起該地的奇風異俗".
I am a dictionary collector and I have some older dictionaries first published back in the nineteenth century on Minnan (or Amoy) by foreign missionaries. The first one is called 廈英大辭典(Chinese-English Dictionary of the Vernacular or Spoken Language of Amoy) by Rev. Carstairs Douglas and published in 1873. The second is called English and Chinese Dictionary of the Amoy Dialect(英廈字典) by Rev. John McGowan and published in 1883. You can find oo1 loo2 bok8 ce5 (transcribed in TLPA for easier reading in this post) in both dictionaries.
In the first dictionary, under loo2, it says "oo1-loo2-bok8-ce5", Urumutsi, a place of severe transportation (see ce5). and under ce5, it says "oo1-loo2-bok8-ce5", Urumutsi, a Chinese province in Central Asia; said also in reference to travellers' tales, "all bosh".
The word bosh basically means nonsense in British English. In the second dictionary under "bosh", it says 烏木魯齊 (evidently a typo) oo1-loo2-bok8-ce5.
Tim
<Typo corrected for Urumutsi.>
From my personal experience, I never heard anyone actually pronounce the second character as a 入聲 (lok) before I learned of it from books or the like. Therefore I think it might be helpful to clarify this from historical data. We can see from one of the links that 英廈辭典 said something about why it's so.
For this, we need to know when 英廈辭典 was published. From http://203.64.42.21/iug/ungian/SoannTeng/subok/POJ.htm, we can find 英廈辭典 and 英廈字典. The said dictionary should be the one called A Practical English-Hokkien Dictionary(實用英廈辭典), or any other one published after the establishment of Republican China or there won't be words like "清末明 (should be 民)初遠從烏魯木齊來臺的人或官員，談起該地的奇風異俗".
I am a dictionary collector and I have some older dictionaries first published back in the nineteenth century on Minnan (or Amoy) by foreign missionaries. The first one is called 廈英大辭典(Chinese-English Dictionary of the Vernacular or Spoken Language of Amoy) by Rev. Carstairs Douglas and published in 1873. The second is called English and Chinese Dictionary of the Amoy Dialect(英廈字典) by Rev. John McGowan and published in 1883. You can find oo1 loo2 bok8 ce5 (transcribed in TLPA for easier reading in this post) in both dictionaries.
In the first dictionary, under loo2, it says "oo1-loo2-bok8-ce5", Urumutsi, a place of severe transportation (see ce5). and under ce5, it says "oo1-loo2-bok8-ce5", Urumutsi, a Chinese province in Central Asia; said also in reference to travellers' tales, "all bosh".
The word bosh basically means nonsense in British English. In the second dictionary under "bosh", it says 烏木魯齊 (evidently a typo) oo1-loo2-bok8-ce5.
Tim
<Typo corrected for Urumutsi.>
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